ZFX + Developia

Verfasst: **13.10.2024, 09:13**

Jetzt kann man einen Raum ( 4 eckig ) mit Softcubes ausstatten. Die rechte View wird zum Erstellen von Texturekoordinaten sein.
Inzwischen empfinde ich den Explorer unübersichtlich, deshalb werde ich ihn vielleicht nochmal überarbeiten, mal sehen...

Verfasst: **13.10.2024, 10:13**

Ich verstehe ehrlich gesagt nicht so ganz, wie der Text zum Bild passt :D

Verfasst: **13.10.2024, 10:18**

Nur der erste Satz passt dazu. Der Rest ist nur so als Bemerkung zu verstehen. :D

Tatsächlich wird hier der ganze Raum mit einem Treppenwürfel gefüllt. Die Wände des Raums werden auch für Geländer nutzbar sein.

Verfasst: **13.10.2024, 12:45**

Ok, ich verstehs immer noch nicht so ganz. Ich sehe da eine Wendeltreppe, sehr hübsch und rund. Was genau sind Softcubes? Sowas wie Subdivision Surfaces? War der Raum vorher viereckig und ist jetzt rund? Oder sind damit die 4 Wände gemeint, von denen zwei dann der Form der Krümmung folgen?

Verfasst: **13.10.2024, 14:41**

Softcubes sind eine Erfindung von mir. Sie lassen sich kombinieren so dass neue Geometrien entstehen und sie basieren im Grunde auf Splines ( Subdivision - Surfaces ). Wenn Sie mögen, können Sie den Softcube Designer von meiner Homepage ( siehe Signatur ( ok, das Thema hatten wir ja neulich ... ) ) ausprobieren. Der Raum mit der Treppe zählt für mich als 4 eckig, auch wenn 2 gegenüberliegende Seiten verbogen sind. Wie man auf dem Screenshot sieht sind auch 2 der Wände gekrümmt und eignen sich als Basis für Softube-basierte Geländer. Natürlich kann dieser Treppenraum auch innerhalb eines anderen Raumes sein. Ist ja auch Sinn der Sache. Ich habe nur diesen Raum mit zugewiesenen Softcubes gemacht, um das Prinzip für Treppen zu zeigen. Der Raum wurde rund erstellt ( aus 2 Kreisen mit 2 geraden Linien ). Rechts im Screenshot sieht man im Explorer wie Wände, Pillars und ein einzelner Raum mit Treppenwürfel editierbar sind. Sowohl Räume, Wände und Pillars können mit Softcubes ersetzt werden ( hierarchisch zugeordnet ). Da schon bei diesem einfachen Beispiel ziemleich viel im Explorer los ist, möchte ich ihn nochmal ändern. Räume müssen immer von Wänden umschlossen werden, wobei man eine Wand auch unsichtbar machen kann ( mit Space-Cube ).

Edit: Der Raum wurde aus 2 Kreisen und 2 geraden Segmenten erstellt. Dann wurde für dieses Shape ein Haus erstellt und dann in den Raum ein Staircase-cube erstellt. In den Staircase-cube habe ich dann einen normalen Box-cube eingefügt, bei dem ich dann bei Count auf 16 oder so ( einen für eine Stufe ) verändert habe. Ich hoffe in ein paar Wochen ein erstes Modell zu erstellen, bei dem auch Treppen eine Geige spielen.

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 05:03**

Mal eine Treppe die zu einem kleinen separaten Raum führt, der eine Etage höher ist. Insgesamt sind 6 Räume in diesem Gebäude.

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 12:40**

Hey Mirror,

könntest du mir auch einen Punktwolken-Export der Räume bauen? Dann kann ich es für hardlife.io benutzen!

Ich brauche im prinzip folgende Angaben je Punkt:

X-Position des Punkts als Float
Y-Position des Punkts
Z
Punktradius (der Radius bei einem Punkteabstand von 1 Punkt in einem Raster muss 1.3 betragen, damit es eine geschlossene Punktewolke ergibt
R [0,255]
R
B
Alpha (=255)
Normal-X
Normal-Y
Normal-Z

also 11 Komponenten pro Punkt. Die Gesamte Wolke brauche ich dann als JSON-File mit einem Array [11x Punktzahl] von Number.
Für den Parser optimaler ist, wenn du alle 11 Werte einen Zeilenumbruch machst.

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 13:15**

Hallo antisteo

Machbar wäre es. Meine Informationen liegen als Spline-Beschreibung vor ( Flächen-Spline ). Wäre der Punktabstand für alle Wände einzeln einstellbar oder für alle Wände gleich, oder soll das für jede Wand berechnet werden ? Ich glaube sie meinen Letzteres. Problematisch sind die Räume, da sie trianguliert vorliegen. Sie liegen als ein Bündel von Dreiecken vor ( für jeden Raum ).

Würde es Ihnen reichen, wenn ich das bis Ende des Jahres mache ? Könntest Du mir ein Beispiel JSON schicken ? Da reicht ja eine Wand oder ein Fußboden. Ich möchte Ende des Jahres den Export machen und da könnte ich es gleich mitmachen. Oder reicht Ihnen *.obj ? Dann könnten Sie den Konverter selber schreiben. Wenn nicht, dann kann ich mal einen JSON Exporter schreiben, einen Loader habe ich schon mal geschrieben ( nur mal so )...

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 13:59**

Ein Meshexport (z.B. obj) sollte doch ausreichen? Denke Antisteo wird einen eigenen Mesh->Pointcloud Konverter haben.

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 17:48**

Jo, denke auch. Falls nicht, ließe sich bestimmt z.B. in Blender mit Geometry Nodes etwas basteln und per Skript als JSON exportieren. Dann könnte man da beliebige Geometrie reinschmeißen, was die Anwendbarkeit der Engine nochmal stark erweitern würde.

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 18:51**

Mirror hat geschrieben: ↑16.10.2024, 13:15 Hallo antisteo

Machbar wäre es. Meine Informationen liegen als Spline-Beschreibung vor ( Flächen-Spline ). Wäre der Punktabstand für alle Wände einzeln einstellbar oder für alle Wände gleich, oder soll das für jede Wand berechnet werden ? Ich glaube sie meinen Letzteres. Problematisch sind die Räume, da sie trianguliert vorliegen. Sie liegen als ein Bündel von Dreiecken vor ( für jeden Raum ).

Würde es Ihnen reichen, wenn ich das bis Ende des Jahres mache ? Könntest Du mir ein Beispiel JSON schicken ? Da reicht ja eine Wand oder ein Fußboden. Ich möchte Ende des Jahres den Export machen und da könnte ich es gleich mitmachen. Oder reicht Ihnen *.obj ? Dann könnten Sie den Konverter selber schreiben. Wenn nicht, dann kann ich mal einen JSON Exporter schreiben, einen Loader habe ich schon mal geschrieben ( nur mal so )...

Ich würde pro Texel einen Punkt machen. Die Level of Detail rechnet dann der Punktwolken-Algo runter durch geeignetes Clustering

Beispiel-JSON für einen Tisch:

Code: Alles auswählen

[
0.2,0,0.2,0.03,154.19,0,0,255,0,0,0,
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: Screenshot 2024-10-16 at 18-50-52 Nachttisch.png (6.07 KiB) 4035 mal betrachtet

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 20:59**

Ich versteh nicht, warum er für dich einen extra Exporter schreiben muss?? Du hast doch sicher einen Mesh -> Pointcloud Konverter?

Verfasst: **16.10.2024, 21:50**

@antisteo

Ich gebe scheichs recht, sie könnten sich ja einen Meshkonverter selber schreiben, oder haben sie schon einen ?
Ich lese pro Texel, soll ich wenn eine Textur zugewiesen ist, diese als Grundlage für den Punktabstand machen ? Was mache ich wenn keine Textur zugewiesen ist ? Möglicherweise brauche ich das ja mal selber...

Verfasst: **17.10.2024, 08:38**

scheichs hat geschrieben: ↑16.10.2024, 20:59 Ich versteh nicht, warum er für dich einen extra Exporter schreiben muss?? Du hast doch sicher einen Mesh -> Pointcloud Konverter?

Weil Meshes nunmal Splines nur annähern

Verfasst: **17.10.2024, 08:51**

Dann kann er ja Meta Infos noch in den Mesh-Export reinhängen und Du kannst Dir dein eigenens Unlimited Detail reinzaubern. Wenn die Point Cloud schon fertig ist, bist Du da ja viel limitierter?

Verfasst: **17.10.2024, 17:00**

antisteo hat geschrieben: ↑17.10.2024, 08:38
scheichs hat geschrieben: ↑16.10.2024, 20:59 Ich versteh nicht, warum er für dich einen extra Exporter schreiben muss?? Du hast doch sicher einen Mesh -> Pointcloud Konverter?
Weil Meshes nunmal Splines nur annähern

Ehh, in der Praxis sieht man keinen Unterschied zwischen einem Kreis aus 180 Segmenten und 360 Segmenten, habs eben mal in Blender ausprobiert. Und selbst wenn jemand sehr gute Augen hat, verdoppelt man das Sampling nochmal, und ist damit vermutlich immernoch deutlich unter der Texturauflösung.

"Unlimited Detail" heißt ja auch nicht perfekte Kurven. Kurven haben so gesehen sehr wenig Details. Unlimited Detail wäre eher, wenn man auf die runde Wand reinzoomt und da dann noch feine Strukturen, etwa vom Putz erkennen kann.

Ich sehe daher nicht wirklich wie in deinem Fall Splines irgendwie besser sind als Meshes. Man nimmt einfach eine hohe Mesh-Auflösung und ist fertig.

Verfasst: **17.10.2024, 20:13**

Es wird aber doch erst nächstes Jahr, wann ich den Export mache. Ich muss noch den Explorer neu schreiben und da schwebt mir ein ziemlich aufwendiges Control vor. Danach mache ich erst Texturen und das Editieren der Texturkoordinaten ist auch noch nicht möglich, wobei letzteres nicht so lange dauern dürfte.

Verfasst: **22.10.2024, 04:12**

Habe eben ein halbwegs größeres Modell erstellt. Es ähnelt Starcows megageilem Modell. Ich habe die untere Etage nicht zu Ende modelliert. Es wären noch Säulen notwendig und ein anderer Bogen. Im Moment habe ich die Schnauze voll vom modellieren. 3 Stunden habe ich gebraucht. Bin aber nicht enttäuscht, immerhin läuft MirrorCAD stabil. Der Explorer ist extrem unübersichtlich mit seinem hierarchischem Content. Das will ich demnächst in anderer Weise gestalten. Obwohl ich das Treppensystem selbst gestaltet habe, musste ich erst überlegen, wie ich das mit dem Programm erstelle.
Die Datei ist 115 MB groß. Ich speichere auch die Dreiecke.

Der rote Balken im einen Screenshot ist fehlerhaft, da habe ich einen Fehler im Modell, wollte es aber nicht mehr ändern, er gehört zu 2 Wänden bei denene die Basis doppelt erstellt wurde ( der Fehler im Programm wurde behoben ). Im anderen Screenshot sieht man das 2 Treppen falsch sind. Auch Rasterfehler sind zu sehen... Naja, für heute will ich aber nix mehr am Modell ändern. Vielleicht nehme ich mir das Modell noch mal vor.

Verfasst: **26.10.2024, 02:13**

Habe gerade gesehen, das in den vorherigen Screenshot Fehler beim Geländer der Treppe sind. Habe den Fehler inzwischen korrigiert. Wie man sieht stimmen die Proportionen des Treppengeländers nicht. Wenn ich mal Langeweile habe werde ich das korrigieren. Auch sind 2 Linien in der schematischen Ansicht falsch.

Verfasst: **09.03.2025, 09:50**

Freie Splines funktionieren jetzt. Sie werden auch für Wände gehen. Ich habe beim obigen Modell 3 Stunden Modellieren angeben. Wenn ich mich richtig entsinne, dann hatte ich beim Modellieren eine längere Pause gemacht. Wenn man weis, wie man das Modell angeht, dann dauert es viel weniger Zeit. Das einzige was schwieriger zu verstehen war, war die etwas kompliziertere Treppe.

Verfasst: **09.03.2025, 13:08**

Mirror hat geschrieben: ↑09.03.2025, 09:50Wenn man weis, wie man das Modell angeht, dann dauert es viel weniger Zeit. Das einzige was schwieriger zu verstehen war, war die etwas kompliziertere Treppe.

Ja, so ist das. Ich hab gestern ein paar GUI Icons für den Landvogt überarbeitet und war schockiert, wie viel Zeit dafür drauf gegangen ist. Ich mache ja echt nicht so viel 2D Grafik, und da musste ich schon vieles rumprobieren, bis ich etwas gefunden habe, was mir gefällt. Vor allen Dingen, weil es ja immer 3 Schritte gibt: Überlegen, was man eigentlich will, herausfinden, welche Techniken man wie kombinieren muss um das zu erreichen und es dann einmal richtig machen. Im fertigen Ergebnis bedenkt man immer nur noch den letzten Schritt, der aber in Wahrheit nur ein Bruchteil der Zeit war... Hachja :D

Verfasst: **30.03.2025, 14:20**

Jonathan hat geschrieben: ↑09.03.2025, 13:08 Ja, so ist das. Ich hab gestern ein paar GUI Icons für den Landvogt überarbeitet und war schockiert, wie viel Zeit dafür drauf gegangen ist. Ich mache ja echt nicht so viel 2D Grafik, und da musste ich schon vieles rumprobieren, bis ich etwas gefunden habe, was mir gefällt. Vor allen Dingen, weil es ja immer 3 Schritte gibt: Überlegen, was man eigentlich will, herausfinden, welche Techniken man wie kombinieren muss um das zu erreichen und es dann einmal richtig machen. Im fertigen Ergebnis bedenkt man immer nur noch den letzten Schritt, der aber in Wahrheit nur ein Bruchteil der Zeit war... Hachja :D

Anscheinend ist das wie beim Programmieren ...

Habe gerade Aufsatzwände rausgeschmissen. Die werden durch echte Säulen ersetzt. Bei den Softcubes weis ich noch nicht so recht. Kann sein das ich sie durch CubeTools ( würde ich so nennen ) ersetze. Die funktionieren ähnlich aber auf 2 dimensionalen Shapes.

Verfasst: **06.04.2025, 20:24**

Mirror hat geschrieben: ↑30.03.2025, 14:20 Anscheinend ist das wie beim Programmieren ...

Naja, eigentlich macht man sich ja beim Programmieren vorher Gedanken, bevor man anfängt. Ich glaube das sollte man auch beim Modellieren machen.

Verfasst: **30.04.2025, 21:25**

Erste echte Spline-Wände. Bisher gingen nur Kreissegmente.

ZFX + Developia

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